Well, this was an interesting one to eavesdrop on …
Seriously, fuck the 3rd wave.
Seriously: fuck smug, superior dismissals of pole dancing.
I have nothing against pole dancing. I think pole dancing sounds like fun.
I think claiming that pole dancing is the empowerful apetheosis of feminist thought is damaging to the feminist movement.
And having a conversation about pole dancing is a distraction tactic from larger issues. I’m tired of one’s choice in personal comportment and hobbies being of great political import. Sometimes lipstick is just lipstick. I think it can be insightful to talk about these things, but when the conversation is dominated by discussions of the feminism of garter belts, we’ve lost sight of some other issues.
I used to be all about pro-sex feminism. And it does have its place. I hate that the conversation is dominated by it without any other feminist issues really getting much air time.
“I think claiming that pole dancing is the empowerful apetheosis of feminist thought is damaging to the feminist movement.”
Show me where ANYONE EVER HAS ARGUED THAT and I’ll cede the point.
But, no. That card gets played a whole lot, and pole dancing gets used as THE example of silly modern faux feminism. And I’m fucking fed up w/ it. I do not appreciate other feminists deriding something they know fuck-all about. And then trying to tell me, “Oh, no, we’re not JUDGING, we’re not saying there’s anything WRONG with it…” I’ve had these conversations too many times now to be fooled by that line. Also, pole dancing isn’t IMPORTANT, we shouldn’t waste our time talking about it - instead let’s talk about the IMPORTANT, OTHER feminist issues. The ones that don’t involve silly women doing silly things.
I also hate the term “pro-sex feminism.” It is typically used by people who are anti-sex positive feminist and do not properly understand the meaning.
You’re talking at me, not to me, so I’m not sure if we can have a civil conversation? I hope we can!
I’ve heard the “pole dancing” is empowering argument all the time from many, MANY fellow Gender Studies students who identified as feminist at the University of Pennsylvania. I’ll grant that it’s not an argument made by the most studied of the Feminist Canon (TM), but it’s an argument I encountered a lot and it drove me nuts.
I also have heard variations of this argument made by my peers in everyday life, who may not identify as “feminist” but consider it a feminist thing to do.
I do think sex-positive, or pro-sex feminism (I use both interchangeably and I used to mostly identify as one) has its place. I think deriding pole dancing as inherently evil, or sexist, or whatnot is myopic.
But I’m also tired of the feminist conversation being commandeered by sex-positive issues. I think they are important. I think they are necessary. I also wish there was some more air time given to other issues.
It really doesn’t have to be a zero-sum game. Honestly. And a lot of my anger isn’t about sex positive feminism itself - it’s about how Joe Francis can argue with a straight face that Girls Gone Wild is empowerful and feminist. It’s about how male privilege has co-opted the sex-positive movement so they can do the Same Old Shit and claim it’s “enlightened.”
Does that make sense? I hope so.
Completely unrelated to the issues (ably) discussed here, “show-me-anyone-other-than-yourself-who-has-ever-argued-that-point-in-the-history-of-the-known-universe” is a neat rhetorical trick. It sounds like the Argument from Personal Incredulity, but it’s not. Easily dispatched, but it’s one I hadn’t heard until now.