Continued from thepoliticalpartygirl:
I am not certain what you are arguing or why you take issue with what I said …
Like I said, this part:
Ignoring a person’s right to say, “stop penetrating my body” is the most basic denial of humanity.
When you’re selling body penetration, this “denial of humanity” is anything but basic. Sexual interactions themselves are not basic; they’re irreducibly complex. And now we’re layering commerce on top of that? Please stop acting as if the issues surrounding the granting and withholding of consent during an act of prostitution are clear-cut and self-evident. They’re not.
Let’s drop the metaphors.
I agree that sex work resists analogy to other transactions, legal and illegal. It’s thorny stuff.
A person is having intercourse with a sex worker. The sex worker says, “We are done. Stop.” At that point, the customer must stop.
Ugh. How can you not see that as murky? Your example is pretty one-dimensional. It’s also deliberately free of context. I’m not implying that either party abdicates responsibility during the act. But it’s not a manicure. We’re talking about very primal experiences. These are not moments of heightened control.
What comes after that, whether there is a refund or the sex worker offers a rain check, whatever, is all peripheral.
It’s not peripheral at all. I guess it’s peripheral if it’s empirically, objectively rape. And if we could always prove rape in all instances, then we might not be having this conversation. But that’s a fantasy world. What if the sex worker is making a bad faith transaction?
When a sex worker says “stop,” and the customer continues, it is indeed rape. That is what is being addressed here, or at least in the original quote and my original argument.
Example: The customer is in the moments just before orgasm. The sex worker says “stop”. The customer, for two seconds, does not. Under your definition, that person is a rapist, a sex offender indistinguishable from the man who breaks into your home and forcibly rapes as you were sleeping. I reject that equivalency, and your blanket statements about what constitutes rape.
Disclosure: I work in an urban medical clinic. I’ve helped run studies that have included many sex workers, usually women and gay men. The patient population includes many johns as well. I don’t want to mix this in with the horror of rape by law enforcement or pimps, but without getting too deep in the weeds, permit me to suggest that neither customer nor solicitor operate under Better Business Bureau guidelines. Prostitution is adversarial and exploitative, on both sides of the transaction.
If this is what we are discussing, I’m very uncomfortable with the assumption that there is an “ethically gray area”
Then maybe you’re not up to the heat in this particular kitchen. If legislating the permissibility of sex workers halting their customers in the middle of primal bodily functions isn’t ethically gray, I seriously don’t know what is.
(I will grant you the lack of legal infrastructure) when speaking about a sex worker’s right to say, “No.”
But that’s exactly the thing. Our legal infrastructure sucks. Our legal definition of rape is oversimple when it comes to prostitution. 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree sexual assault statutes make a lot more sense when applied to domestic violence, random sexual assault, date rape, etc. I’m not arguing that rape during sex work is of lesser or greater offense than rape outside of sex work, just that it’s … different, like how sexual assault isn’t less of a crime than statutory rape. But a judge has discretion over whether the 18 year-old is a “rapist” just by sleeping with his 17 year-old girlfriend.
There is no ethically grey area when it comes to rape.
There is an ethically grey area when it comes to determining if rape occurred. Hell, there’s an ethically grey area when it comes to taking of human life. That’s why we have judges and juries. If it was all black and white—if all that was required was simple application of the law, sentences would be meted out by disinterested public servants, like parking tickets.
No is no.
And A is A. Now let’s talk about the world we actually live in, yes?
No metaphor can hide the thick, stark line between consent and rape of a mentally capable person.
And no metaphor can clear it up either.